machineri interview – Part III of III

Here’s the final installment of my talk with machineri’s Sannie Fox and Andre Geldenhuys. You can read part I here and part II here. Here we discuss some of the music they’re enjoying at the moment, the state of South African radio, and the impact that the Internet might have for independent artists who are not getting aired through the traditional channels. Enjoy.

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Craig Ritchie: “How has your music been received over here so far?”

Sannie Fox: “I’ve been in two other bands here and it’s really difficult to do alternative music in South Africa. There’s basically no radio stations where you can get this kind of stuff played.”

Andre Geldenhuys: “The Sony/BMG guys saw our videos the other day and sounded interested. It’s nice just to get some recognition in your own country.

SF: “I think maybe they don’t know what to do with machineri in this country, though. I mean, where does it go, where do you put it?”

CR: “Do you reckon getting your music out over the Internet or just by word of mouth isn’t actually going to help more? There are so many good bands out there that no one’s really heard of but people are sort of sharing their music online and getting discovered that way. You’re not hearing these bands on the radio. I mean, I don’t really listen to the radio at all anymore.”

AG: “I think there are a lot of people out there that feel that way – that no one really does anything about these bands and… who does listen to the radio?”

SF: “People actually do. Some people listen all the time and I don’t know how they can. I think about eight years ago I stopped listening to the radio.”

CR: “Another thing I want to do with each interview is ask whoever it is to recommend some music that they’re into. Maybe you could each just recommend one album you’ve been listening that you really feel other people should give a try?”

AG: “I would say Ataxia. It’s the side project of the guitarist from the Chili Peppers, John Frusciante, playing with the bassist from a band called Fugazi and another drumming kid. That’s amazing music. What would you say?”

SF: “I dunno man, it’s really hard to think of one, but at the moment I’ve really been enjoying Hot Chocolate. You know, I Believe In Miracles… I’ve been listening to their album and it’s just this disco funk soul blues, and I think it’s fucken cool. I think I’ve just been listening to their Greatest Hits album. But other than that, I’d say Josh Grierson.”

CR: “You reckon he’s doing some really good stuff at the moment?”

AG: “He’s like Ryan Adams… his voice is amazing, and his song writing is almost sort like country, but with his voice it just goes on to another level. Like Sannie’s voice, it’s amazing.”

CR: “Have you had training, or have you just sung for a while?”

SF: “I think I’ve just been singing for a really long time. I mean, I think since I was five I was already loving music. I loved dancing and I think I’ve just had music in me since I was very young. I started my first band when I was nineteen and that’s when I started singing as a vocalist. That band was Black Betty. It was a three piece folk band and I played acoustic guitar for rhythm. There was an electric guitar for lead and another girl on violins and backing vocals. That was awesome, real folk/Celtic stuff. Then we added drums and I picked up an electric guitar and we became Mama Know Nothing.”

CR: “You’ve spoken a lot about authenticity – your drive to have authenticity play a large role in your music. Do you think that’s something that’s common to a lot of people in the time we’re in now, in these big cities – you know, the significance of trying to find something real, something genuine?”

SF: “Well, you just look at the radio. It’s just trickery and bullshit. They keep putting out this bullshit that means fucking nothing. The music is not even using instruments any more, and they’re using this vocoder all the time, it’s fucking bullshit.”

AG: “You get a mic that, say you’re singing out of key and you’re meant to be singing in the key of C, it pitches your voice to the key of C so you can’t hit an off note.”

SF: “I think there’s still some really good music out there. There’s all these great bands out there but the music world has gone to shit. The bands that they let through and actually want the public to be listening to now… it’s so fake and shallow.”

AG: “It comes down teenagers.”

SF: “No, it comes down to money and consumerism.”

AG: “Ja, but they’re the teenagers – these are the songs they like. They go to a party and these are the songs they hear.”

SF: “It’s just that there’s no long lasting music that’s getting punted anymore. You used to hear John Lee Hooker on the radio, you used to hear Jimi Hendrix on the radio.”

CR: “Ja, it’s sort of interesting what you say there. I mean, of the last decade or so, where’s that superband, where’s that sound that’s going to define the last ten years…”

SF: “The nineties were the last of the good stuff, I think,’

AG: “For sure, but I think people also say that every generation. There’ll always be that.”

CR: “But don’t you think that with, say, the sixties and the seventies… that time was very alive with their music and what was popular music then is still what’s so classic now. I think what’s popular now is going to fade away very quickly.”

AG: “Ja, definitely, definitely.”

SF: “I think there’s going to be a resurgence some time soon though.”

CR: “Don’t you think the Internet is going to change this by opening up the channels of how music gets out there? I mean, I really think that it’s changing the existing power dynamics of those who get to determine what people listen to. This sort of viral way that, you know, I’ll tell people on my blog and they’ll maybe tell some people who then share the music with even more.”

AG: “Well ja, bands like the Black Keys – you’d never imagine them to be a band that becomes successful these days, but thanks to the Internet and how much they actually play, they do very well. And that’s also that very authentic blues. I think it’s just a matter of putting a band like that on stage – if people were to see it they’d enjoy it.”

SF: “But it’s actually just getting the bands out there in the first place. There’s so much room for generic music but there’s no one out there that’s actually trying to find something that doesn’t sound like everything else. There aren’t enough people pushing the bands and music that have got… an X-factor, a difference.”

CR: “Well maybe with the technologies we have now and how everyone is connected to the Internet all the time these days, maybe there’s place for an Internet-based radio station in South Africa that can stream these alternative bands’ music.”

SF: “I’ve been wanting to look into going to radio stations and find out about this, but apparently there’s no slot whatsoever for alternative music on South African radio. There’s just no place for local alternative bands, and how the fuck does that work?”

AG: “It’s all about the money, hey, and I think it’s government funded too.”

SF: “Ja but how much money are you going to lose by playing one hour of alternative music? It’s a bit immoral actually, in a country like this that has so many people producing alternative music but no one is providing any platform or foundation for it. I mean, what are we supposed to do to get our name out there. What example is there for us to follow? I mean, the Sprinbok Nude Girls… that’s what I’m saying, that was still the nineties -”

AG: “That was still the nineties and grunge was still king.”

SF: “Grunge is still king if you ask me.”

CR: “It just seems to me that the kind of people who would like that hour or two of alternative stuff have probably veered away from the radio completely now.”

AG: “Exactly.”

SF: “Ja, I certainly am not listening to the radio. I mean, it’s a bit of a catch-22. It’s really good in one sense that you no longer have to go to a record label to get all this money to be able to get your music out there. Now, with the Internet there’s this incredible window of opportunity where musicians can, for relatively cheap and in a short amount of time, make their own videos, record their own songs and sort of publish it themselves. Then on the other hand there’s the catch-22 because it’s an information overload – how do you get your stuff heard when there’s so many people doing this now.”

AG: “Look, I still believe that if you really are good enough and you put the effort in and believe in it, you’re going to make it. There’s so many bands that try and have a quick hit, don’t always play their best stuff but they still get away with it. I think that at the end of the day the best will always come on top for sure.”

SF: “It’s exciting times because it’s new for musicians to have this technology which empowers their stuff and opens up new avenues to get their music out. I feel… I feel like we do have the goods, we just need to get it out there.”

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That concludes my talk with Sannie and Andre, thanks for taking the time to read this. machineri are playing tonight at the Purple Turtle on Long Street – check them out!

machineri interview – Part II of III

Picking up from yesterday’s talk about the earlier days of the band and why it took them so long to start playing live, today we discuss specifics about the kind of music that machineri are making, a few significant influences, as well as a bit of a look at how their new songs come about.

Craig Ritchie: “Acid blues? Why that?”

Sannie Fox: “For me, the blues thing is from growing up with people like John Lee Hooker, a lot of jazz… and I just love blues. I’ve always loved blues since I was small, and I find singing the blues very easy.”

Andre Geldenhuys: “It’s kind of like your style of singing… that Celtic blues.”

SF: “I also always liked R&B. I love folk music as well. I love all kinds of music… soul, reggae… I like the very authentic stuff, like real music. And I like the anger in blues as well. I just love it and I don’t know how you can go wrong, really – it’s one of the coolest forms of music you get.”

AG: “But it’s really easy to make it sound terrible and cheesy, I think. If it’s done well and it’s really true, then it’s special.”

SF: “This project especially has got a lot of R&B and soul in it, and it’s working pretty well. It’s got a Celtic vibe to it as well.”

CR: “What about you Andre, is that the sort of thing you were always into, or did you only start playing this kind of thing after meeting Sannie?”

AG: “Well, since I started playing guitar, the blues was basically in the front from day one. It’s a very guitar-driven thing and Jimi Hendrix is my god – so I’m not necessarily trying to copy what he was doing, but just the kind of feeling that he played with. His R&B was so amazing – he sort of speaks through his guitar. A lot of blues is less rhythm and more talking through the guitar. It’s more interesting and it’s less limited.”

CR: “What do you mean by that?”

AG: “I think most people, when they pick up a guitar the first thing they’ll learn is probably a couple of chords and strumming, but a lot of blues is like leads playing, with single notes and the way you’re playing can be way more expressive. I mean, I love rhythm playing but this is more colourful and you can hear things. So among the first things I learned were old classics like Hear My Train A-Coming by Jimi Hendrix – an acoustic one. It’s way less limited and you can go anywhere, really.”

CR: “You guys are also throwing in a lot of distortion and suddenly making it really fast and powerful mid-song, and that’s not really traditional blues at all. So the sound of the music changes, both your tempo and the intensity, but the vocals stay with that blues-ey sound throughout. What’s behind that distortion and the faster, more rock-like sound?”

SF: “It’s more psychedelic I think, actually. I love acoustic blues, it’s incredible, and I was in an acoustic band for many years. Then I started playing electric and, you know, Jimi Hendrix is unbelievable the way he takes blues to electric. It’s just that whole move in the sixties I think, when things started going electric, people started playing blues with electric and there were bands like Led Zeppelin… it allows you to create so much. I love music that you can go to almost another level with. It’s art, and all art to me, the point of it is that it’s evocative and takes you out of the ordinary. It’s why you want to go to a gig, so you can be there and really feel something… that true authenticity, you know?”

AG: “Just coming back to that idea about distortion – it’s more overdrive than distortion. When they invented distortion, it was actually from cranking the volume so loud that the speaker starts buzzing. A lot of new metal uses distortion and it’s very synthetic, almost tinny. But when you combine overdrive with loud distortion it starts cracking, I think… The whole reason that we’re drawn to the guitar is because it’s got that unique sound – you can make it sound ugly, almost. For example, Eric Clapton. I think he’s amazing but it’s always got a very sweet, clean sound, while a guy like Hendrix or Jack White or John Frusciante – they’ve almost got this scary character on the guitar.”

SF: “Another thing about our distortion is that from when I was little I was hearing John Lee Hooker playing, like, Cotton Blues on electric, Jimi Hendrix was also always playing on electric – it’s a little bit darker, you know.”

AG: “I think part of it also comes from us not having a bass player. What we do is put our mids down, our treble, we put down. But then we crank our bass. And it’s weird because a lot of people say they hear this really heavy bass sound but there’s no bass. This adds to the overdrive and distortion – this very bassy kind of tone. We’re very conscious of that because there’s no bassist but we like that bassy, low tone. It’s quite ironic that we’ve got a bassy sound without a bass player.”

CR: “Is that something you guys want to maintain – I mean, not use a bass in your band?”

SF: “Nah, I don’t ever want to.”

AG: “No…”

CR: “You don’t think there’d be a particular song where either of you could pick up a bass guitar just to add something to that one track?”

AG: “I don’t want to rule things out, but it’s not something that’s ever really featured in our minds.”

SF: “The whole lack of bass has actually got a lot to do with our sound. I mean, it’s called machineri and it’s quite layered. What we play is these riffs that… (she pauses) it’s like trance as well, where we play these repeated riffs that intertwine and you get this noise that just keeps going, and then you add another noise and it becomes like a machine. Also, we try to have very strong grooves, strong rhythms and because we don’t have a bass we have to come up with that on our guitars and come up with a clever way to interweave what the guitars are doing. It’s quite nice that because we don’t have a bass we sort of have to create it ourselves, and that’s quite fun – trying to make it like a machine.”

AG: “That’s also a thing with some drummers… because we didn’t have a bass, some drummers were a little bit skeptical because the swing and the groove go hand in hand. So if you watch a band, often the drummer and bassist are having their little moment in the corner.”

CR: “So, the process of writing your songs. How does that work – do you guys work on it together and then take it to Daniel?”

SF: “Usually what happens with a song is that I’ll work on it, get the basic structure and the rhythm and the lyrics. That can take… well, that can take up to a year sometimes. I mean, Father Gun I’ve been writing those lyrics for a year. And then I’ll take it to Andre and he does his thing, putting on all the harmonizing and the interweaving, and then we’ll put on the groove, adding to it and buffing it up, basically. I’ll take a song to Andre, but it’s like a blueprint, like a skeleton of a song with vocals.”

AG: “Father Gun was a bit of an exception though. It was quite special in that the drummer and I were just jamming a groove and Sannie had an idea of a melody and lyrics, and the first time we played this thing it just sounded awesome.”

SF: “Ja, that’s the other way it happens. And then sometimes we take a camera into the jam room and just film, just jamming whatever and every now and then we’ll come up with something where you go ‘fuck, that would make for a fucking cool song!’”

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So, that’s it for today – the third and final part of my interview with Sannie and Andre will be posted tomorrow.

machineri interview – Part I of III

machineri have had a somewhat non-standard journey to where they are now, getting international attention for their videos and securing professional studio recordings before ever having played a live gig. In the first of this three-part interview conducted over lattes and cappuccinos at their local Vida, we talk about why their show at Zula was only their second ever live performance despite having been around for two years already.

Craig Ritchie: “So why did it take so long for you guys to play live?”

Sannie Fox: “Well, it was just the two of us playing together and we always wanted to gig, so we’d be like, ‘OK, we want to find a gig in four weeks’, but after four weeks we still hadn’t found a drummer. Then we’d find someone who’d maybe stay around for three months before we split ways again, so we ended up wasting weeks and weeks looking for a drummer and then when we found someone, ended up wasting three months working with that person.”

Andre Geldenhuys: “Ja, we’d get guys who would say ‘man, we’re so committed, we just want to practice every day’, but then a month later they’re like, ‘sorry, I can’t actually keep doing this’. But the main reason playing live gigs took so long was that we’d been recording all these songs with Theo Crous before our manager screwed us over, and those recordings basically had to get shelved. Theo Crous was the guitarist for the Springbok Nude Girls and he’s now probably the best commercial producer in the country. He does the Parlotones, Prime Circle, all those guys. Mike Horn from Hog Hoggidy Hog was our drummer for those recordings. He’s amazing.”

SF: “We also lost a lot of time because we were in quite an intensive relationship with this manager from the UK. He came on board for the project about a year ago. We recorded three songs and my dad made the music videos. The video for The Searchers went to MTV-Base in the UK, and when they saw it they contacted us and said that MTV UK wanted it and that we should formally submit it, so we were over the moon. So it went through all these selection processes and got really far, but ultimately got rejected because the audio quality in the videos wasn’t good enough for MTV UK. I’d recorded the audio myself in a studio at Cape Audio College as a project, so it’s pretty fucking crazy that they even liked it as much as they did. So then this manager said ‘right, I’ll get you into the studio with Theo Kraus to re-record the audio’. The manager then paid to record these tracks. He said he really loved the music, loved our alternative sound and didn’t want to do anything to change the tracks. But then he changed his game after we’d completed recording the tracks because he was trying to get our songs on the radio.”

AG: “Ja, we ended up getting one of the songs back from him and he’d gotten another songwriter to change the chorus. So he sends us this song, and we’re hearing this song that we’ve done, and all of a sudden there’s this weird chick singing the chorus, and we were just like what the fuck?”

SF: “And there’d been months already of him putting pressure on me to change the music. I mean, two months before that I had sent him this long letter warning him, saying how we were going to have to split paths if you’re going to try and make my music not my own. It got very ugly – he was threatening to take me to the high court. Theo charges about ten grand per track and we recorded three, so this guy had spent a lot of money. Now, we never intended it to go this way, but he’d totally lied, saying how he loved our music and didn’t want to change anything, and then ended up doing the opposite. And then when I told him that we want to split paths, I asked if we could please still carry on with this journey with the music videos because MTV UK  were waiting for us to submit our new audio. We’ve only now, like a week ago, sent the new audio to MTV UK.”

AG: “That’s why MTV UK are still waiting for the music – after a year. So you can imagine how bummed we were that they’ve got these videos and they can’t play them because we couldn’t use the audio we had.”

SF: “So he sent me a ten page contract that took away all ownership of the music. We had to write and ask him permission if we wanted to do our songs in public.”

CR: “But you didn’t sign any of this?”

SF: “Oh no way, the contract only came right at the end when we wanted to split paths. He wanted us to sign that he could change the lyrics, use our songs for remixes, that kind of thing.”

CR: “It sounds like a ridiculous story, something you’d find in a TV special…”

SF: “Ja it was, it was fucken surreal. And then he said if you don’t sign this, you have to pay me all the money you owe me now.”

AG: “Which amounted to fifty thousand rand.”

SF: “And he told us how his lawyer said I was an immoral person, he called me a criminal, it was really hectic and basically took, like, our whole year out. I think he thought that we were so desperate that we’d just do what he said, like he didn’t understand how much we cared about our music. And alongside all that was the drummer issue, so everything has just taken a really long time.”

CR: “So how did you meet up with your current drummer?”

SF: “A friend of mine was jamming at the Jam Room and Daniel [Huxham] was there with some guys. I just saw him and thought, fuck, this guy really goes into a trance. So I asked him if he can play to a click track. The reason I use a click when I record is because I want to use backing tracks – not a lot of backing tracks, but I’m doing minimal stuff on the chorus because I want to have double vocals. And you can only use pre-recorded backing tracks if the drummer is playing to a click.”

AG: “And most drummers, even if they’re really good, they can’t play to a click because it’s perfectly mathematically timed. Sometimes the really successful drummers also just don’t want to go with a band that hasn’t been signed… they don’t want to take a chance because they don’t know who you are. But they’ll be sorry though!” (laughs)

SF: “You also don’t always want to work with someone who’s doing so well because you want someone with whom you feel on the same level.”

AG: “Not in terms of ability, but more where you are. But Daniel, he’s awesome, and he’s been with us for about 5 months.”

SF: “But Andre and I have been playing together for two years, so that’s probably why it doesn’t sound like we’re brand new. A lot of those songs we played at Zula we wrote… ja, about two years ago.”

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Part two of my interview with Sannie and Andre will be posted tomorrow. Thanks for reading.